Do you REALLY want to be an "alpha"?
But men haven't had that same force or same drive or need to do that, right? And now we're at a point in time where there's a massive discrepancy between women wanting different things and men are in a crisis because they're still using ideas from the past. So for example, the idea of the epitome of manhood is the alpha male. Or at least it's held up as some sort of paragon of manhood. To be a man is to be a provider
Kwa NateKo
@kwa · 4:55
So if you are seeing somebody who does take direction, I mean, give direction does take charge in some ways or is more physically appealing. I think in a lot of long, I think a lot of what is not being seen is like a lot of men have been conditioned over time to really do what this imperative says or see others as women, as more like an equal or kind of not just think of you, but support, think about supporting the woman in the family
Kwa NateKo
@kwa · 3:22
But you have to be honest the best word to say that I think you have to consider these things when you're saying, well, why are men drawn to this stuff? When some of it seems outlandish? That's the reason
Would you say that there is or is not a difference between a confident man or woman and the alpha version? To me, there is a very distinct difference. But I'm curious in understanding what you have said already and how you framed it. Yeah
Kwa NateKo
@kwa · 4:00
I think inner confidence is very attractive to men, but that sort of outward confidence display, that sort of alpha aggressiveness doesn't necessarily attract, I don't think attracts women to men aren't as attracted by that. There's a there's a huge difference. Women are much more attractive, I think, in general to that than men are. And it's not like men find that completely unattractive. But this makes a larger difference
Kwa NateKo
@kwa · 1:05
Oh, and and to add a little clarity into this, on top of that, I think what's different with men and women, if you, as a man don't have that or a woman doesn't see that in you, even whether you're out in the world or inside in a long term relationship, this happens all the time. They tend to lose respect for that man. And that's the biggest thing, right?
Tanya Coles
@MsColes77 · 3:58
And I believe that one of the reasons why the manosphere red pill community gained so much prominence was because I know in recent years there have been a lot of focus on women women's empowerment, women's rights, women wanting equality to men, especially in the workplace, women wanting certain ways of treatment. And just seeing the feminism movement picking up steam, I think that there were some men who felt like, look, why are we just standing back and allowing society to use women to steamroll over us?
Kwa NateKo
@kwa · 2:21
Affirmation without the respect, individual respect, no matter particularly in your home where you go and without the sex, doesn't matter at all if you're very successful and people love you or people have a certain amount of social respect for you as a man, but you are not getting that attention at home. And I'm saying this not out of personal experience, I'm saying this more
And they're basing influence culture on this toxic masculinity. And what really just bothers me about it is because it's so stupid. Like, when you look at it and you listen to it, none of these things are beneficial to people in this sort of platform and messaging. You cannot help be a man by essentially shaping the ideology of masculinity in all the most strong, strength based dynamics and never discussing vulnerability and never discussing what it is to be a human being
There are certain women that are the exception to that rule where we always see these phenomenons that occur where women are just stronger than men. That's not what I'm speaking about in terms of equality, especially in the sense of an alpha male. I think the idea that we believe for so long that a relationship is 50 50, when it's really 100% and 100%, that's the only way it can stay afloat
Kwa NateKo
@kwa · 3:25
So, yes, we can talk of things outside of it, but if we're talking about this particular issue. And those very basic things are not what they're not addressed and that men feel like they're getting what they need and want out of their relationships. I'm not saying where this right or wrong. I'm saying there's always going to be an appeal if that is not addressed or taken care of
This is just one of the many ways that this culture has now turned a blind eye to ideology and morale and really swung this pendulum into the direction of the desire of the male fantasy of control because that's what it boils down to. And that's why so many of these men have allegations of sexual misconduct whether that be rape, sexual assault, sex trafficking. We're hearing all these types of things come from this because we can see this problematic mindset is based in a much darker territory
There are certain circles that do speak like that, but there are also a lot more circles that are growing now that are growing to speak in this very generalized perspective of territorial men, more dominant men, more submissive women, and these expectations that while we're talking about men don't have circles to speak about these things. There are more expectations that are being built in a false sense of a fantasy from men in a climate where we're just seeing that things are getting ever so difficult and divided
Kwa NateKo
@kwa · 4:22
If you want different results, you as a man have to step up and change that. And that's kind of the point. If you want to get a result, you as an individual man. And again, we could talk about that bigger picture societal structure all day. But even changing those sort of inequalities doesn't necessarily change how much booty you get. I don't know how else to put it
Because the main thing and I know we try to beat around the butch with the culture, with the discussion of alpha maleism, but even if you remove all that, like you said, if you move all the racial dynamic, out of the way and just focus on what it means to be a man and how you need to take priority over certain things if you want to change your position in life or whatever it may be
Kwa NateKo
@kwa · 4:51
But I think we'd be not being honest with ourselves if we're not saying like, if you take on some of those traits, to some respect, you can better yourself for that. And that'll just give you better results. Results in life. But again, the point goes hold on, Kyle. The proof is in the pudding. As long as these men aren't getting sex and I can't stress this enough, as long as the men aren't doing did
Kwa NateKo
@kwa · 3:26
And if you actually look at a broad swath of these channels, not the most extreme of them, they will say things like the ideas and that you have to look like a bodybuilder, but be in decent shape the best you can. It can pay not to look, it can pay to not be out of shape just in the same way it does with the woman. Like, you will catch more eyes if you're in shape
J.L. Beasley
@Her_Sisu · 4:53
I took a picture of it. Help me, please. Someone came to help. So it's things of that nature that I, as a woman, look to men do to be just how we are, even wired at a cellular level. I look at men for consistency, their leadership, their guidance. With me being as a woman created to be emotional, and their strength in me being emotional, I'm supposed to be emotional
And Claude, to the points that you made, I definitely think that there are more nuances to what it is to be a man, what it is to be attractive sexually or confidence or relationally to one's partner. There's a lot of more nuances to these things
Also, I just want to say thank you to all of you, because it was really interesting to come back and listen to all of the different perspectives and the back and forth. So thank you for that
I liked what Harvey said in one of his replies, that instead of it being a 50 50, it's 100. We're both coming to the table, so to speak, in whatever scenario you want to talk about, whether we're talking about a relationship, whether you're talking about work colleagues, whether you're talking about just friends or what have you
They sold many of books, many downloads, trying to tell these same guys who need to know what an alpha male is how to approach a woman. It's the same thing. And I think that's even more toxic. But it's actually straight up deception and it's embarrassing to me if I had to go to a class to tell me how to talk to a woman, you know what I mean? What if I told you that I was born this way?
And if I do, I don't do it on purpose, but I do what I do because I want to help somebody, you know what I mean? I don't want to see anybody get hurt. I do feel bad for the women in sports. My daughter would not be in college or in the prove or whatever playing with basketball against boxing. I think I've seen a bunch of dudes get twisted up good with jiu jitsu, you know what I mean?
But I'm just saying that's crazy to me, that's embarrassing to look up to another man like that. That's talking the type of stuff that he's talking. It really is. And if you think about it, every relationship that a man has with a man heterosexual boils down to competition one way or another. So it kind of works out that way. But I ain't know who that guy was till you all told me
I guess there's not enough birdseed. Anyway, I don't know exactly where I was at, but I know I was talking about zoom levels. And in order to dissect or deconstruct rather, and create a different society or to at least reflect on who we want to be as individuals, we have to look at these things from all of the different levels. Right. And because there's such an interwovenness, I don't know how we dissect them to look at them any differently
But if you put enough of that stuff together with a charismatic lawyer and kind of understands the process a little bit, you got life in prison. So now the scales of justice are not going to tilt towards Mercy, it's going to tilt towards AI. It's a lot going on and the more you look naturally, the more I'm going to see. But I do believe that sometime in the near future we're all going to have to come together
But I'm just saying but then I got to run a disclaimer for being a man and stepping up and saying, you know what, I'm not going to let nothing happen to nobody today. Or if something's happening, I'm going to do my best to get into it and just stop it. You know what I mean? I mean, they got TV shows for this stuff. What would you do?
So, for example, the AI pulling even more data pieces to determine that the conclusion is that it's a lie is preposterous. It makes me think of things like, was it the Minority Report? They had the precogs who could tell you who was going to commit a crime? And so, I don't know, it just was really disturbing on so many different levels
If I say that as a woman, I don't see gender, that negates your lived experience and my lived experience, and they're not the same. Right. The positives and the negatives. And in order to better understand one another, I think we have to talk about them. Right. I don't know
It? Well, I remembered it was from what I can remember, it was a topic that had to do with the, with the community and or masculinity, toxic masculinity. And I believe that he was he ran a disclaimer because he didn't want to offend anybody and he can, you know, say what he needs to say and just let everybody know that I'm not one of those toxic guys or whatever the case may be