@Upod
Let’s talk about freelance writing!
Deborah Pardes
@DBPardes · 2:15
In Conversation with David Hochman
The link is I'll link it here in case you missed it in this swellcast. It's an organization that really brings people together to discuss their professional trajectory. And we're talking about people who have bylines in the best publications in the world. So, David, Hi, thank you for letting me riff with you and kind of look at all the parts of your world out loud
David Hochman
@Upod · 3:07
Hey, Deb, it's definitely an amazing and peachy morning here in the United States of America. Democracy has been saved, and, you know, feeling good. So, yeah, thank you for the opportunity to say that journalism also saved just seeing the faces on MSNBC last night and those without any sort of furled eyebrow. I mean, that was very exciting
Deborah Pardes
@DBPardes · 2:23
And what can we do to bridge the gap between the audacity? People have to do anything they want all the time on any platform and refining their capacity to be a good journalist. And what's missing in our society to help bridge the gap to help educate people, do you think specifically in middle school and high school, we can bring in and rein in, not rein in
David Hochman
@Upod · 2:33
And I think it comes down to leadership and mentorship and people who are teachers and who are wiser, older elders or more experienced people. And I think it's kind of leading by example and showing what good journalism is, what a fair story is and what the standards are. It starts with mentorship. It starts with people who have done this
Deborah Pardes
@DBPardes · 1:06
Hey, David, what a great answer. And I guess I want to follow up with something you said about traditions of journalism. We're at a time right now, especially today when we're seeing the fallout of disinformation. And recently I had somebody say to me, Nobody really knows the Ruth. And I want you to speak to that for me, please
David Hochman
@Upod · 2:03
But I think the people who are getting the news, the more you encourage people to do research, to reread if they hear something that sounds off, to check another source and to know legitimate sources what those legitimate sources are. Once you start to see things that you're able to find collaborative research and see where corroborative research, I mean, and see who's backing it up
Deborah Pardes
@DBPardes · 1:40
Some people don't even know they had it expecting and wanting something to be true and looking for things that would confirm that and not seeing the patterns of your own inclination towards those kinds of pieces of information. So that's the trouble we're in today. People believe. I have a mother who believes that the election was absolutely rigged, and I can't tell her otherwise. She's 87
David Hochman
@Upod · 3:32
But, yeah, I mean, I've been lucky to go eye to eye with people and see the softening in their eye and see the glisten in their eye. That's where you can find connection
Deborah Pardes
@DBPardes · 2:05
So you have to follow the lead and the moment and see where it's taking you and notice these nuanced changes in a person where you're saying, wow, they really just took a deep breath and they dropped in and let me go there. And I guess my next question has to do with how that translates to the leadership being able to know that journey that you took, because that's fascinating
David Hochman
@Upod · 2:56
I was too young and too foolish to know how to handle that information. Those are great stories to tell at parties, remember, parties, by the way. But I didn't know how to bring those into the story. Lately, in more recent years, I figured out how to do that. There's also been a change in the way that journalism is done, where kind of the personal point of view of the writer is valued as much as the subject
Deborah Pardes
@DBPardes · 1:50
Actually, it's an instinct that you have that a lot of people have, but it's not something you actually can learn a lot about because it's sort of a vibe of a human. But when you think about your vocation as an instructor, as a teacher, you have worked with Editors, and you have also been a teacher. I'm just really curious about the difference between someone who edits your work and someone who teaches you about your work
David Hochman
@Upod · 1:58
Those are both kind of the same strains of work that I do both as an editor and as a teacher. So I guess good Editors and good teachers kind of clear the way for you to do what you want. They help you get out of your own way. And that's what I try to do. So I am a kind of mid person who opens gates and says, Here we go, go in this direction, aim in the direction you want to go
Deborah Pardes
@DBPardes · 1:30
But the second part of the question is the difference between media and journalism, media platforms and journalism as journalists, we all wonder the difference between writing long form and tweeting and doing social connections to the world. What's a healthy balance between socializing as a journalist and a writer and doing those long form pieces that you're getting paid for? And is there a combo that you think is important to keep your quote name out there? I'm thinking about medium
Deborah Pardes
@DBPardes · 0:29
By the way, this is the last question of this amazing conversation with you, David. Thank you so much. I wish the UPOD Academy so much luck and not luck, but actually fortification so that it can continue to support and nurture the lives and work of all the journalists and writers that are members and here's to the future of good journalism and good times
David Hochman
@Upod · 0:09
Thanks, Tab. It? S been a pleasure. Let? S keep the conversation going. It's been swelled
Ruth Steinberg
@gardening · 0:21
Thank you for that amazing conversation. I listened to it long ago, and I'm listening to it again on my walk. And it's just such a wonderful thing to wake up and hear clarity of mind first thing in the morning. Thank you