@Professor42
Professor Z
@Professor42 · 4:48

Should Transgendered People Compete In Seperate Or Intergrated Sports Leagues?

Here's my opinion and I'll explain and relay why I feel this way. So my opinion is that both women and men at let's say a birth state or from birth have major biological differences. Men for the most part not always, usually have more muscle mass, have denser bones, et cetera. They may be more geared towards athletic performance

Think about MTF transitions and competing in female league or WTM transition competing in a Men's league

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@varunkaich
Varun Aich
@varunkaich · 1:19
And I remember the time when Jesse Owens I don't know if you know Jesse Owens or not, but he had to compete with horses in the race. He's one of the number one athletes. You were talking in those terms. That was like about 60, 70 years ago. So what you're saying is dates back to primitive times, man. I mean, not primitive. Primitive would be barbaric. But your topic of discussion is really back to like 70 years
@Professor42
Professor Z
@Professor42 · 0:53
So my example was merely a question as to whether it was appropriate and not a means of not supporting transgender athletes. They have a right, and there's a large distinction there. To answer your first question, I am from the States, and being as we're on the topic of intelligence, do note that I have a knack for taking one's own logic and presenting it back to them
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@Swell
Swell Team
@Swell · 0:15

Welcome to Swell!

@varunkaich
Varun Aich
@varunkaich · 2:49
Okay, so first of all, it's nice to know that you're from the United States, man, you guys are at the peak of culture and education and man, you guys give birth to so many things, jazz and all of the that and it hurts to hear a question or a far because this kind of question, it's been already addressed years ago, years ago. And it's hurtful to disappointing to answer this question or get into these conversations
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@ZLisbon
Zara Lisbon
@ZLisbon · 4:56
It reminds me of this absurd article I read, an anti trans rights article that talked about this issue of this one law that was passed that I suppose supposedly says that if a man says he's a woman, all you have to do is say you identify as a woman in order to be put in a women's prison. And obviously that's very scary. Like, we do not want men in women's prisons
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@ZLisbon
Zara Lisbon
@ZLisbon · 4:59
Because think of all the hate and prejudice that you'd have to face. Could you really successfully be number one, win the gold with all the distractions of hate and prejudice that you'd be coming up against every day, every day of training, every day of competition? I know 100% in my heart that trans women should be able to play women's sports. I think in the future a cool thing would be for women in general to not be sequestered to their own teams
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@ZLisbon
Zara Lisbon
@ZLisbon · 2:49
When I first hear, you know, should abortion be legal? Like, my my first inner gut instinct is like is like, no, that's that's murder. That should not be allowed. Then you look at it with critical thinking skills. You look at the reality of the situation, who it affects, who it affects negatively, who's really benefiting from it. And with both cases, abortion. And should trans women get to play sports both times you have who's benefiting from it?
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@varunkaich
Varun Aich
@varunkaich · 1:34
I think it's only chess. But yeah, I actually agreed to your thing. And in terms of, like, a sprint or if it's like, a javelin or something like that, I think the sports authority will have some measures out there. But I totally agree with your information that you shared, and I appreciate it
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@Professor42
Professor Z
@Professor42 · 4:28

@zara

So outside of sports, obviously, sports being like the main topic, you did bring up something with the prison thing that was also something I read about a while ago, was actually, I think, this year in regards to transgendered inmates being protected, I agree that, yeah, they should probably be transferred to an actual facility that would provide that protection and not provide hostility and aggression toward them
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@varunkaich
Varun Aich
@varunkaich · 0:31
Hey, professor, you know, basically, I just want to say sorry because of my enraged response. It was, you know, these some of these well, users, you know, they were just saying anything, and then, you know, it just came on to you. I mean, it was a very good topic, man. And the way Zara explained, I'm at peace, bro. I'm mentally at peace right now. So thank you. I really appreciate it
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@sebc23
Sebastian Cahill
@sebc23 · 4:54

@Professor42 article about Lia Thomas https://s.swell.life/STAvDDMhN1BdDcg

Hi. Yeah, thank you for bringing this up. I think that this topic is something that is kind of misreported on in media. So it's something that I'm really passionate about. I'm a trans man and I used to to compete in sports competitively. I used to be a swimmer. And so I think that obviously I'm going to be speaking on my own experience as a trans person. And I think every trans person has a unique experience
article image placeholderTransgender swimmer Lia Thomas says 'trans women are not a threat to women's sports'
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@sebc23
Sebastian Cahill
@sebc23 · 4:54

#liathomas #michaelphelps #transathletes and an article on the wrestler Mack Beggs! https://s.swell.life/STAvXBpgS2LRCg9

I think it's not that trans people want to stay in these leagues. Like, trans people want to have their personhood and their gender recognized and just to be respected. And this teenager did not want to keep competing against women regardless of the fact that he was breaking records, that he was like the undefeated champion, because it wasn't a recognition of who he really was
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@Professor42
Professor Z
@Professor42 · 4:49

@sebc23

But it is a great point that you did bring up in regards to doping. The other point that you brought up is something that I sort of combed over, didn't go into a lot of detail about, but it's also something that it's sort of the other side of the coin that I was thinking about. What happens when the woman competes against the man, or the woman transitions from a woman to a man and competes against men
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@varunkaich
Varun Aich
@varunkaich · 0:34
Bro. Professor. Professor is Lisbon. Lisbon has put a perspective on this, a perspective that, you know, I missed out. Professor, I teach queer people thinking. I teach in universities, bro. Really? She put me to shame. She put me to shame, bro. I just did not think about that aspect. In spite of being an athlete. National Champion taekwondo. I am so embarrassed, bro. We got to be trying for Lisbon, man. She is amazing
@varunkaich
Varun Aich
@varunkaich · 0:04
As Lisboy la puerto perspective
@sebc23
Sebastian Cahill
@sebc23 · 2:21

@Professor42 #transathletes

Music. Yeah. Thank you for your response. I think what you brought up, the one thing that I kind of wanted to comment on is that I, while I do agree with you that, you know, things like bones tendons, those things are is much harder to change, I have kind of, I guess, two responses to that. One is that actually you are able to change the amount of muscle that you can develop through being on hormones
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@aBirdieOnaWire
Wren .
@aBirdieOnaWire · 4:50
And from what I understand, if I remember right, she had actually stopped competing in training and weightlifting prior to transitioning for a while and then started back up again in 2017. And so in about three years time, she was able to get up to, I think, 7th in the world, international Waitlisting Federation. But she certainly wasn't smashing any records or really just casting to the side all of her competitors
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@kylecrossman
Kyle Crossman
@kylecrossman · 0:50

@ZLisbon

And because of that they should be allowed to compete in different categories. Or should they be allowed to compete in the same categories? My opinion on this is a bit long, so I'll follow up my reply down below if you care to listen to it
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@kylecrossman
Kyle Crossman
@kylecrossman · 3:57
So I really think if there can be no headway in either direction, the only reasonable action that brings us as close to fair as possible for everyone is to separate right now, CIS athletes from transparency in competition until more information is known about the long term effects behind hormone therapy and sports. I know that it's not ideal and the goal isn't to make trans athletes feel separated from their peers, which is probably what it will do a little bit
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@katiecal
Katie Callahan
@katiecal · 4:18

Sports have never been fair

So I just feel like with sports, what they said made a lot of sense of, like, sports have never been fair. There's always outliers and other things that affect the way an athlete is able to perform, whether it be that, again, they have money to get better equipment, to get more training hours, or their body type just genetically is better suited for that sport or they've been training for that sport longer in their life than other competitors
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@kylecrossman
Kyle Crossman
@kylecrossman · 1:11

@katiecal

Hey, Katie, this is a great point. And, yeah, I've sort of been molding over the question, and like you said, it kind of comes down to the fact that sports have never been fair and there's always going to be differences between athletes and someone's going to be taller than someone else or someone's going to have, I don't know, like, larger feet in swimming than someone else, or like, there's always going to be discrepancies
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@StehanieLynne11
Stephanie Lynne
@StehanieLynne11 · 3:44

#transathletes #transrights #lgbtqia+

This conversation topic is always really interesting to me because when we talk about trans folks in sports, the argument almost always, always, is it fair when a human that is born as a man transitions to a woman and then competes in women's sports? Is that fair? And I've seen post responses where people are talking about taking the hormones. So that's already been covered in many responses, I think, to this. And I don't know, I didn't listen to them all
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@Mtwadamela · 4:17
I don't want to see that. That's like the ultimate unfair. Sure, there's always been discrepancies between athletes. I've always said to myself that there is no equality in nature. Nature doesn't equate or create equality. You know what I mean? Some dudes are bigger, some are stronger, some are faster, some are smarter, some are better looking, etc and etc. So there's no equality in that
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@StehanieLynne11
Stephanie Lynne
@StehanieLynne11 · 4:16

@Mtwadamela

So I think there's just a lack of knowledge and understanding for what it takes to transition. But also there's fear because you just don't understand why somebody would want to transition. And because of that, you make the assumption that an athlete could just wake up one day and decide to become the other gender. But it doesn't work that way. People don't just decide that. You say, nature, everything is made in a certain way, and I agree with that
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@Mtwadamela · 3:01

@StehanieLynne11

No. I have no problem with anyone wanting to transition. What I don't want to see is Mike Tyson fighting a female boxer. Why? That's not even competition. That's a slaughter. I don't want to see LeBron James or Michael Jordan if he was still playing. I don't want to see them compete against women. I don't men and women are different. Men and women are different. Biologically, psychologically, we're different
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@StehanieLynne11
Stephanie Lynne
@StehanieLynne11 · 2:04

@Mtwadamela

So when a woman transitions to a man and is taking testosterone, their muscle mass and structure is going to change. And same thing for when a man transitions to a woman. Muscle mass in structure is going to change. So your body is undergoing a literal transition. It's not just the way you appear to society. And in that aspect, you are changing any advantage that you may have had prior to transitioning. That's all I was saying
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@aBirdieOnaWire
Wren .
@aBirdieOnaWire · 4:50
So someone who was born male anatomy, but believes that they are a woman, will begin expressing gender the way that their society or culture deems a woman would express gender and vice versa. And then there's legal transition, where someone would change all legal documents and gender markers and things like that for their driver's license. And most transgendered people compete in seperate or three of those things. So there's that something else, I think, with Steph
article image placeholderUploaded by @aBirdieOnaWire
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@Mtwadamela · 2:03
Well, thank you for sharing that. I do. I hear you. I hear what you're saying. But let me say this, especially with the the picture that you just showed, I understand that the testosterone levels might go down and the muscle mass might go down. However, the six foot five bone structure is going nowhere. You understand what I'm saying? It's not going anywhere. So that strength is still going to be massive. It's still going to be man strength
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@Professor42
Professor Z
@Professor42 · 1:24

@aBirdieOnaWire

So therefore, I actually do a little bit more research, and it turns out that she actually did worse, but well, not worse, but not as well as a female transitioning. So thanks for bringing that up. Bye
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@Professor42
Professor Z
@Professor42 · 3:20

@katiecal

Katie, you are the second response that I'm going to compose. What I want to say is, in regards to your response, I agree with what you're saying in regards to, you know, some people may be more genetically suited for for something, but on the other end, when I think about that, genetics is not something that should be at least in my opinion, genetics is not something that should be comparable, because genetics is not something you control
@Professor42
Professor Z
@Professor42 · 2:52

@Mtwadamela

Tendons is something that I mentioned in my Swell. I'm a former power athlete. Tendons play a big part. A lot of people don't know that. I don't believe lungs to a degree can be reverted. Maybe, possibly you can make your lungs stronger, but I think maybe the only thing that could revert them is probably disease. But in regards to that, I agree 100%
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@Mtwadamela · 2:00
Ha, man. If LeBron in Year 20 at 38, went to the WNBA right now on Skill alone, just Skill and all the smarts alone, he's going to dominate. But physically, or you could forget about it. You can forget about it. Who's going to stop it? I'm just saying. Me, personally, I just would not want to see no s*** like that. I want to see competition. You know what I mean?
@Her_Sisu
J.L. Beasley
@Her_Sisu · 3:19
Professor 42 not sure if you heard my response on the other swell Casters post about this subject yesterday. I agree with many of your points. Only part I differ on is let me start with what I agree with. I understand biologically men have a different muscle mass and bone density than someone born biologically female. And that was what I mentioned in my post the other day or yesterday. It's because of that difference I understand why there are men sports in various categories and female sports in various categories
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