Why are descriptions of hell more popular than those of heaven? 🤔
But what I find curious is that when you broaden the zoom on what we're looking at and what permeates that's there we go culture more broadly than just a religious belief, there doesn't seem to be much there by comparison. When we look at the stories around hell, I find that fascinating. Perplexing, but fascinating, especially when we talk about heaven as the place we want to go, right? The place that everybody wants to be, the place you're going to see your loved ones
It's not to say that everybody does this, but there are many who focus on the afterlife as the goal and the ends justify the means. Right? If that's the goal, then they will make whatever decisions, whatever actions interact with people in such a way that the end goal is the most important
Angela Kaye
@AnngieKaye · 3:19
I don't know who said it, where I got it from and this is not anything against those who don't believe, but it says, I'd rather live my life believing in God and finding out I'm wrong versus believing that he didn't exist and finding out I'm wrong
Well, for what it's worth, I didn't take what you said as rambling at all. I hadn't thought of it Thade way. I don't read much poetry because it requires a larger cognitive load than I already carry. And I struggle with lyrics and poetry
There's interesting observations, I think, that can be made there or are made there. And I'm so with you that the scriptures are so sparing in their descriptions of heaven, let alone their descriptions of hell. And yet humans have come up with these larger ideas and run with them. And you're right, we don't know what is. We only know the here and the now
Tanya Coles
@MsColes77 · 3:49
It talks about heaven being a place where there is no sickness, no tears, no death. That's mind blowing. For a finite human, that's mind blowing. We see sickness, death, tears and torment every day. So to think that there could be this place where we'll never have to go through that ever again, I think for a lot of people that's inconceivable
Dewuan .
@FryedOreo · 4:24
You can understand that if you do this thing and whatever, the society doesn't like it or the laws, it's unlawful, you will be punished. And there is also a sort of act of feeling good for punishing bad people. Not in hell, but here on Earth. We feel as though we are having our own sort of hell we give towards human beings, like in prisons and that sort of stuff. But that's a different sort of conversation. It thank you so much for this
You know, part of me agrees with you that it's difficult to even imagine heaven. But part of me is like we we get glimpses of perfect health. We take it for granted, but we do get glimpses of it. We get glimpses of happiness and perfect weather and do you know what I mean?
If we're acting out of fear, then it's like I can't get caught, right? Because if I get caught, well then I'm going to face those consequences rather than doing what's good for the sake of doing what's good
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 4:59
It's more well, you get this for doing good works, or you get it for being a member of this religion or something like that. Yeah. And then, of course, going back a while, there wasn't a notion of there were notions of what we call hell, but it wasn't called that. It was called all sorts of other things. But people come up with these because they always want, well, we're interested in what comes after life
Dewuan .
@FryedOreo · 4:52
This is staunched in Irish Catholicism, and I think I said Catholicism I think I said that wrong earlier, but Catholicism but it's a story of a person who is having elements of Heaven and Hell here on Earth, and it's a very interesting take on how we perceive sin and things of that nature. But I do think those stories tend to sway people more just in terms of grabbing their attention
Okay. There was something you said there that just like knocked me over. Although I believe exactly what you described, it was the language that you used of heaven almost being something to compete for and that hell was like the default. And it's so true, I don't know why it took me aback, but it was just the language and the idea that because according to original sin, you are born into sin, meaning the default is hell
It's so interesting. I would love just from like a sort of fiction author perspective, I would love if someone wrote an interesting, dramatic, exciting story around heaven. Right. The concepts of heaven. I don't even know if it's possible because I think it was was it in that article or elsewhere? I read somebody's description. No, it's in that article they wrote about somebody who is a believer, wrote a fictional book
Okay. After I recorded that, I realized that some of the things I referenced were not in that original article that's linked above. I think they may have been in this particular article that I also read. And so I put this link here just in case you or anyone else has any interest
Dewuan .
@FryedOreo · 4:14
I'm not really familiar with the Bible as I am not a believer, but I think hell and more examples and iterations of it are because we can visualize that a lot easier. We can visualize it a lot easier even though earth itself is not hell either. But some people feel that heaven is on earth and it's what you make of your existence here
You know, when you said the slices of heaven, it got me thinking. Isn't it funny how we can see hell and the stories of as this spectacle, the drama. And there's interest and excitement in a way there of observing, thinking about and of course, not wanting to go there. It's like watching a train wreck. No one wants to be in it, but everyone one wants to watch it, right?
J.L. Beasley
@Her_Sisu · 4:06
As I continue on my own journey of spirituality and separating myself from religion, I honestly believe the concept is a state of being. Hell is a state of being. Heaven is a state of being. It's not necessarily a place like a jail that a soul goes to. It's a state of being. And I believe we all exist in the same frequency, if you will, and a state of being of heaven and a state of being of hell
Like I said before, I think it's really easy for us to say that heaven is like Dane Cook said, it's an airport where all your loved ones are there and holding a sign and waving you to come in, versus something like Event Horizon, where Thade ship gets lost and it passes through this void. And when they see the footage of where the ship has been, it's literally an orgy of chaos. It's pain
I like this metaphor idea of I don't know if this is exactly how you feel about it, but I'm thinking of it as metaphor heaven and hell, the states of being instead of places and the way that you described it. And also even describing us as miniature gods or I've heard some say that we're all a part of God. You even said spirit within us. All right
And so any concepts we have around love or significance of family or anything you could come up with, these all take on a different meaning, flavor, et cetera, when there is no end, right? Because instead of putting off seeing somebody until tomorrow, you could put them off for seeing for centuries. Do you know what I mean? Anyway, that's what I meant by between life and death
Theo Seibold
@itsTOW · 4:56
You should focus on the now. And I think a lot of us actually live with our own personal health PTSD. I'm a war vet. Like, I live with survivor guilt every day. So I think just do the best you can and make it count here
Hey, Theo. I don't know why, but as I was listening, you reminded me of when I was learning to drive and my dad was like he was telling, lift your eyes and look up ahead. Because apparently I was looking more directly in front of the vehicle. And so I guess I was maybe overcorrecting or turning the wheel back and forth, back and forth in order to try to keep it between the lines. S right? And then he was like, Lift your eyes
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 1:01
It. Hi. Yeah. Relating to what you said yeah. I have a question. Do you think historically and in the present, most religious institutions that have concepts of both heaven and hell, do you think that theo, they encourage their congregation to fear hell or to crave or seek out heaven more? Also, on another note, I think you're probably one of my favorite swell. Casters, I think they're called. Yeah
Thank you for your kind words. That was really nice to hear. Thade was really nice. You know, I had to think on this a little bit. I don't think there's any study, at least I'm not aware of one that talks about, you know, either which one is promoted more within churches. However, anecdotally I traveled once upon a time in a theater company turned out to be a cult. But I did spend much time in various church denominations
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 4:58
I mean, a lot of Christians describe or some Christina describe themselves as saints. Well, my notion of saint is very different than just someone who follows a religion. I'm actually writing a story about Thade involves them. It's quite interesting, at least the subject matter is. But yeah, I've noticed that there's a couple of things going on. A lot of religious people have an unfortunate persecution complex, so they think there's a war on
And in doing that, that immediately sets themselves apart to look down on anybody else who doesn't agree with them, doesn't believe as they and to me, that is counter to any scripture that you would hear talking about Jesus himself, right? But yet somehow or another, that's the message that is received or taken or internalized based on whatever messages a specific church is telling their people, right, whatever the emphasis is. And so it's so problematic
So who are they to set themselves up as, quote unquote, better or whatever, then? I don't know. There's just obviously I could go on and on and on about these things. I used to be a part of a bunch of conversations happening live on clubhouse around these topics. However, the environment and the types of conversations have drastically changed and now it's pointless verbal sparring for the purposes of dominating and winning. And I'm not interested in that
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 5:00
Religious, non religious, whatever, I could say. Having faith in someone, be it a family or a family group or something like that, that's very important. It sustains people. And then there's larger ones as well. There's an interesting book read, I suppose it's a philosophy book more than anything else, but it's called God Emperor of Dune and the Character of Atreides II. He said something interesting. He said, I'm going to restore the outward view
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 4:56
I might watch it a little, but a lot of people, especially the guys, tend to like sports, but I do not. Kaye basketball a little bit, and watching them is all right sometimes, but I'm not enthusiastic about it. I wouldn't go into the statistics and the backgrounds of the players. So I think sometimes there's quite a cultural disconnect. And also, well, I guess my interests and the degree that I'm interested in something is quite atypical
And failing is a part of growing and learning and developing skills and resiliency, right? And so I can understand that if we stayed in our comfort zone or at home or what have you, then we're limiting our ability to develop spiritually. And I think there is some truth to that with respect to how people develop
A good and a bad dynamic and creates hierarchies that there's a time and a place for them with respect to organizations and getting jobs done and so on. But socially, I have a major problem with social hierarchies
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 4:59
It's going to have a permanent place. There probably Messiah will dune certainly will. Children of Dune. Perhaps chapter house? I read a little of chapter house. I'm going to complete it. It seems interesting. Yeah. And there's a few others. There's the King James Bible. Now, obviously, if someone wants to be a Bible scholar, one goes into reference works and all of that. But as for pleasure of reading the King James Bible is by far my favorite
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 5:00
It. In addition to that Theo whole aspect of being autistic, it definitely I don't know. I think it presents a little more obviously with men usually than with women. At least that's been my experience. Um, people talk down to me, and they condescend and and basically negative activities are enhanced. It's not everyone, but I find that people with low intelligence and people who have low empathy are the worst offenders because the low intelligence people can't understand what I'm talking about
People think Thade hyperactivity is moving about and so on but there's the internal hyperactivity that can happen as well but you don't hear that talked about or there's so many other facets to the diagnosis that it's only the ones that really disrupt other people and how they're perceived through a single lens. Right
While they don't understand that there are differences and don't attempt to communicate the way that we do, can cause a bunch of difficulties not just in the pathology of autism, but in perceptions and even communicating. I saw an Instagram video recently which I know is not the best of resources, but the way theo person put this was really helpful
Okay, I fibbed apparently this is part three. I'm trying to switch up the language of how I describe this to people who are not aware that it exists, instead of making it a neurotypical versus neurodivergent, more specifically autistic. Because there's hierarchies that are automatically created within the neurotypical language and ideas of us being deficient in some way and them being theo ideal. I think that this is not helpful for facilitating better communication. So I'm trying to think of different ways of communicating
I think it also offers them, creates familiarity so that they can communicate with one another. Like it determines, let's say, a threat level maybe, where I've noticed when I will try to have conversations, I will do them without engaging in any of that stuff, let's say on clubhouse. And sometimes they'll want to start out by asking, so tell us your name and what you do for a living. And to me, that is meaningless
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 4:59
But the thing is that well, the whole thing about autistic people and animals, well, that's a really good clue as to because sympathy and empathy are very linked. They're not at all the same thing, but they usually go together in a person. And having sympathy for an animal is pretty universal. But having empathy for an animal, understanding an animal is actually kind of a little more rare
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 4:43
And not just that they're not being used in a clinical setting, not that the common person would be qualified to work in that in the first place, but whatever, it's also they're misusing it because they're trying to diagnose theo friends or somebody else. That's inappropriate. Again, because it should only be used in that context or by someone in a way that shows you clearly understand what it means. And they do not know what it means
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 4:58
And Other Things, the 84 version, I found it was really garbage. I know some people like it for various reasons. I think a lot of times it's nostalgia and some people have strange tastes, I guess. But I found it to be an insult to the book, so I was rather upset that it exists. And I know Theo director didn't get the cut he wanted and this isn't about the CGI or anything. It's about actually, I don't know
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 5:00
So that's an interesting one. Now, God, Emperor Herbert wrote this, apparently as a love story, which I find interesting. There definitely is that theme in there in more ways than one. But, yeah, as ever, it's a philosophy book, primarily, which I love. Not everyone's cup of tea, and that's fine, I suppose. It's a really good story on its own, I would say, insofar as it tells the story. Right
But neurodivergent people, we do this as an attempt to really show somebody cognitively that we understand, that we have empathy for their situation by saying, hey, I went through this experience that's similar to yours, and so I understand to some degree, right. But it's not perceived that way. And what's funny this leads me to the next point about scripting. I think neurotypicals script a ridiculous amount, but they don't recognize it as scripting and they describe it as quote unquote intuitive
And I can't remember why I thought this. It's been a while since I've seen it. And yeah, I don't think that movies with philosophy there's definitely an audience for theo, but it's not the masses. The masses want maybe spoon fed ideas or they want and that sounds negative, and I don't mean it that way, but I mean, it's a short period of time, really. Right?
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 4:58
It. Yeah, that's been my finding as well in respect to movies, that with only a couple of exceptions, they're not as good as the books if they're based on the book or they're not as good as books in general. Yeah. I would say The Godfather part One and two. It and the musical Oliver. I think it was in 68. I watched that growing up. Really quite good
Joshua Tito
@ozzymendez · 4:59
I would say he was a step beyond it. He was very good and he made something that was really extraordinary. And I think the subsequent efforts have been somewhat squandered. And it's very disappointing because I'm invested in this series. It Thade a strong impact on my life as books go. So that's disappointing. I think it was Dreamer of Dune. Yeah, I read the first draft of Dune and it was a lot simpler. But it was interesting in its own way. It
Because it made me feel so much from I saw them in the theater for the first time and there was the music, the visuals, just the feel of it. It created a very different experience from reading the books. And the books then began to feel sort of I don't know if I want to say two dimensional that's pullings II but they were less dimensional than the movies. And so those movies were very much I appreciated them better than the books. Yeah