@Ramya
Ramya V
@RamyaΒ Β·Β 1:23

Would you separate the artist from the art?

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Do I let the reputation of the creators do the talking and refuse to acknowledge the art artistry in the Picasso's and the Caravaggios or ignore the truth in Roman Polanskis and Woody Allen films. It's a messy road, and one that I've often avoided. So is separating the artist from the art the best way to approach all forms of art? Does this question imply in some way that our artists are to be virtuous and ethical at all times?

https://s.swell.life/SSJFJXpOCxAKhhS

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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 3:11
So for me, I would would would would would you separate the artist from only the sense where I think the art is separate? Now, can you separate the flip side to that is that you can't separate the art from the artist. You can't look at the art in a vacuum. You have to consider the artist and their background and stuff like that
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 1:17
These people made a contribution to society, and we can't erase the good just because they've done bad, because we as human beings. We all do good, and we all do bad, all of us. There's not one person that just does all good. And if you say you're that person, you're lying. You straight up line
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@Raretodd
Todd Wiese
@RaretoddΒ Β·Β 2:48

It’s very hard to answer this question!

And as far as movie directors are concerned, there was a movie came out in the 30s, maybe the 20s, maybe called Birth of a Nation. And it used brand new cinematography techniques that had never been used before. And it was considered groundbreaking. I can't remember the director's name, but the movie itself is about how the clan, the Klu Klux Klan, rescues the country from black people. And it's really terrible
7
@FryedOreo
Dewuan .
@FryedOreoΒ Β·Β 4:57

So many barking dogs, and so many layers. Lol @NamelessJournal

Ramya. This is an interesting question because it has so much layers and implications that really question man's moral Compass or woman, man and woman's or people's moral Compass Compass and the inadequacies or flaws of a moral Compass altogether. And I say this to say about what if we took away those injustices and those crimes and those wrongdoings and we don't get the art? What if these vile things were playing a part in the art and why it was created? I'm thinking of Gary Glitter
7
@Ramya
Ramya V
@RamyaΒ Β·Β 2:21

A question for everyone @here...

But my dilemma most often is in those cases where the artist real life believes or for lack of a better word moral divine is reflected in his work in a very direct way. The case of R. Kelly that empty brought up in his well, now he's a person who has a slew of allegations of sexual abuse of minor girls piled upon him
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 4:06
I never associated it with any of the allegations, even to this day. I still don't. I still don't because I understand that everybody loves sex, everybody has sexual desires and needs and all that good stuff. But in that case, you can't take away what the man is made. I mean, you just can't anything that's done, it's done. Just like if you say something, you can't Unsay it. If you hear something, you cannot unheard it
4
@FryedOreo
Dewuan .
@FryedOreoΒ Β·Β 4:57

Some of my further musings.

And the unfortunate scenario with a lot of those victims that were in those documentaries were that they were of legal consent to have sexual acts with him. Now, in regards to the Alia and all that sort of stuff going on, there's just not enough evidence to prosecute him. And I think there's a statuette of a certain amount of time. I forget what you call that, but it's like past the time where he could get prosecuted
3
@Taylor
Taylor J
@TaylorΒ Β·Β 2:03
And so in that moment, I almost have to just treat it as completely separate from one another. Oftentimes when I read Lovecraft stories, I really just don't even think about the man itself himself. I just think about the incredible world building that's being done. I don't know. It's a tricky one. All I can say for the modern day is do whatever you can't to make sure that these people do not see any of your money
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@SeekingPlumb

Our messy humanity. When am I complicit?

We're not all one thing, and to dig deep into that, then I think allows them to create something amazing that we can truly appreciate from that standpoint. Then I think it would be unfair of me to say that if somebody has this darkness that I deem too dark that I can't appreciate the art when, like it or not, that facet of who they are is key to their creation. I think the big question for me is when is it that I become complicit?
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@SeekingPlumb

Slippery slopes. @Mtwadamela @Wuandurful

I think there's also a slippery slope to say that because someone was not convicted in a court situation, that again, nothing happened because from my opinion, the court system is theater. It's about who you can pay, that has the best acting roles, the most flashy presentation grabs your attention and convinces you of whatever narrative they want to sell you. It's not really about justice. So to say, I'm not saying anything specifically about Michael Jackson or Art Kelly
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@FryedOreo
Dewuan .
@FryedOreoΒ Β·Β 0:26

What are your thoughts on Cancel Culture? @SeekingPlumb

Christina great points. There is a slippery slope because you know, the legalities of things can be very trivial at best in terms of due diligence and justice. But I wonder what I'm curious of. What are your thoughts upon social media becoming the new Court of law in a matter of public opinion and cancel culture? What are your thoughts on that? I'm just curious as to what you think about that
@SeekingPlumb

The emotional frenzy of the mob. @Wuandurful

I can't help but roll my eyes when I see yet another cancel this person cancel that business, you know, because from my perspective, it's mob mentality. Someone or a few someones have whipped up the emotional. So the crowd is only yelling, this is bad. This is terrible. But once that mob coalesce, then there's like, no rational thought. And it's all based on hearsay. And this person thinks that that person thinks that, but it hasn't been verified
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@FryedOreo
Dewuan .
@FryedOreoΒ Β·Β 4:18

This is very slippery but fascinating as well. πŸ€” @SeekingPlumb

But yeah, it is rather fascinating what social media has become in the past ten years, even where now it's no longer a place where celebrities casually would come on. Now it's like they're on there just as much as you and me. And for better or worse, Cardi B I can think of who has said some things on her live streams that came back to haunt her
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 4:25
Try to go get in the music game. Things don't work out. You get exposed to the real game, and that type of s*** happens. But I'm not going to quit listening to R. Kelly because I still like the songs. I can't can't not like the songs all of a sudden because he's accused of doing X y
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@SeekingPlumb

"In the name of tolerance, I will not tolerate you!" πŸ€¦πŸ»β€β™€οΈ @Wuandurful

It's really ironic if you think about it in the name of tolerance, we will not tolerate you, you know. And and there is all this talk of being inclusive, of wanting to accept everyone for who they love or or what clothes they wear, what they look like for skinny fat, like anything you can list off. Right
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@SeekingPlumb

A different memory. Becoming trapped. @Mtwadamela

I saw the same documentary Mtois, and I have a slightly different memory of it so I could be wrong. But it was my understanding that although the women were grown in the documentary, this was being recorded for us after the fact. So when they were still with him, they were underage at least that's my memory. I could be wrong
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@Swell
Swell Team
@SwellΒ Β·Β 0:15

Welcome to Swell!

@truthful
Kevin Cole
@truthfulΒ Β·Β 4:07
And don't nobody think nothing is wrong with that man. They are trying to f*** up your kids heads all the way down to the g****** business, m************ artist because they start off rapping, singing whatever they do about goody, goody, goody. And then when they get older. They go to talking about sex and f****** and making crazy a** music videos
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 3:28
Do I think some of them are bullshit? Yes, I do. I think some people probably get mad. It's really crazy because sexual assault is one of those crimes that as a man facing an accusation of that, you almost have no defense against it. And the woman knows that she possesses a lot of power with that, because a woman can just be walking down the street and just go up to a cop say, hey, that dude just raped me
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 2:59
Okay, Truthful, I gotta respond to something you said right quick. I'm gonna piggyback off of it because I do agree that a lot of times it is the labels, the art pushing this message. So I'm 53. So I can remember a time when it really was no hip hop. There was no hip hop at all. You know what I mean? And I can also remember a time back in the late 80s where you had the gangster rap
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@truthful
Kevin Cole
@truthfulΒ Β·Β 3:46
He had a podcast where he literally tells you when they transferred the music from conscious rap, they were doing away with that to a straight gangster hip hop. They did. They had to meet a secret meet. And all these rep companies and record labels they all entered. They bought stockholders into the private prison. I'm pretty sure you all have heard of the private prison before or the prison prison system. And basically the goal was to just make it simple for you
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 4:04
They just decided it was too much influence towards steering people towards something positive as opposed to the shooting up, bang, bang, all that type of s***. So they just decided to push one style, one brand one way, you know what I mean? So it is what it is and it is messed up. But this society as a whole right now, it's just so f***** up, you know what I mean? Everything is bad
2
@truthful
Kevin Cole
@truthfulΒ Β·Β 2:23
Hip hop is not even a culture anymore. Guys, hip hop has turned into a multimillion dollar Corporation because the art two sides to it. It's the music side and then the prison side. The music side is to where they use the art arches to put out bang, bang, shoot, shoot or shake my a** for every n***** in the club music to promote violence and horrors to the younger generations
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 1:09
Well, you're right. Truthful. Hip hop is a multibillion dollar industry worldwide, no doubt about it. But it's really pushed in one way, really, basically, in this country. I mean, if you look overseas, I recommend you start listening to some KRS one, some of his new s***. He's been putting out s*** forever. But he's like, the grand ambassador of hip hop globally
2
@Wordsmith
Sreeja V
@WordsmithΒ Β·Β 3:48

Perspectives beyond personality

I think it's no longer the case, like it was a decade ago or two decades ago when an artist would also be respected for the value system he or she holds. I don't think that's true anymore in today's world, because anybody can become a celebrity, right? Instagram could make you a celebrity. Youtube could make you a celebrity so swell, could make you a celebrity, though I think voice has the power to be a little more authentic somehow. I believe that
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@Ramya
Ramya V
@RamyaΒ Β·Β 2:09

There isn't a perfect ans to the Q, but thankful 4 the lively debate n POVs

I've really loved listening to all these complex views on how art in the artists are in some ways interrelated, and how it might not be quite possible to look at the art alone without the context of the artist background or history, etc. Etc. And honestly, there is absolutely nothing wrong in consuming a piece of art with no obligation whatsoever, but simply because you love it and take pleasure out of it. But that said, I do appreciate Taylor's and Christina's take on this
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@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 3:48
I mean, it is what it is, but it's just all the lies and stuff. And I just can't imagine how Ike must have felt his whole life. You're going around with this narrative on you that you just like the poster boy of beating women. And it's 100% not true. Still, many of us will hear this and still won't believe it. We still will hold on to the lie that Hollywood created for us about Tina Turner
@Mtwadamela
Mtwadamela Ijogo
@MtwadamelaΒ Β·Β 0:26
Yup, Yup. That's it. That's it. That's the one merely human. That's the song I was trying to think about earlier. You got it. Yeah, but just think how true that song is right now, that's it's so true. I mean, that's why do you think social media is so popular? Because we love Dirty laundry
@Shawn_Christy
Shawn Schepps
@Shawn_ChristyΒ Β·Β 0:20
I don't think that you would would would would you separate the artist from art? Always lives inside the artist. Yes. That is my short answer
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@LenaFoster
Lena Foster
@LenaFosterΒ Β·Β 1:33
Have always wondered about this topic, so thank you for being this up. I have been really struggling to find out the answer to if I don't listen to the art because the art is is it awful person, or do I still listen or view and acknowledge the art? To me? I have found that it kind of depends with Michael Jackson. I think it's, like, so different. I don't know how to explain it
@Rover_Phoenix
Sohini Joarder
@Rover_PhoenixΒ Β·Β 1:13
Like when you see Heat Ledger's Joker, and when you see Jordan Phoenix Joker, you will see the clear difference. And that's what art and artist means. He pledged died because of playing that role because he was too engrossed in it. So that's the art that made him immortal, the artist lives immortally through his art. So his or hero to their art rather. So it's really not very useful to separate the two, which are actually a soul and a heart kind of situation
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@aShamaninJourny
Aaron Waldron, M.Div.
@aShamaninJournyΒ Β·Β 2:10

Art is Relative & Relational, not absolute.

Greetings. I thought your question was really interesting, but I wanted to shed light on how your the root of your question is a very absolute notion, and how you're asking for an absolute response. And life is not so absolute, right. And so, as an artist myself, I think art pieces and art itself is relational. And you have to take it case by case, right. Some art can look beautiful, have vibrant colors and evoke certain emotion from you
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